Friday, 7 October 2011

A Week Of It

7 days is a long time for:
-living on water alone
-watching Deep Space 9 reruns
-politics
-internet development, and
-reading Salon comments.

In keeping with Einstein's explanation of relativity, some of these things are merely tedious as a rural trip to the grocery while some stretch out before you like contemplating next month's appointment for a root canal.

It's now (or will be in a few hours) one week since Salon began their deadly serious effort to completely destroy their own business. One can always admire obsessive dedication to achieving a goal, even as we might not find the goal itself particularly worthy or desirable.

Certainly it is hard for any reasonable person to imagine how being attacked, hacked, and defaced by Anonymous or lulzsec (not that they would do such a thing) would have been worse than what Salon have done to themselves.

At least in that case there'd have been some sympathy from their customers and readers, rather than the disgust and hostility they have bought upon themselves.


There's an empty street, in an empty town
There's an old boutique, selling ageing gowns
Some words on the walls
that were written
By the light of the moon so bright
Can you hear me? Can you hear me, tonight?
Take me out of this darkness and into the morning light...

The rain that falls, doesn't make me cry
And the wind that blows, cannot hurt my eye
But the things that I see
when I turn on TV
Make me wanna lay down and die

Can you hear me
? Can you hear me, tonight?
Take me out of this darkness and into the morning light...

-Chris Rea, Out of This Darkness, from Water Sign [1983]

Kia Kaha!

34 comments:

  1. Well, the real issue is that if people choose to keep posting on the screwed up site, there is zero incentive to fix it. If we actually boycotted for a day (easy for me to say since I cannot log on) I do believe someone would sit up and take notice, but that means a total blank out; no posts. No clicks, no business, something would get done. Bank on it.

    ReplyDelete
  2. agree --- that's why I haven't been posting (except for 2 or 3 testing posts at the end of quite old articles ...

    I've also wondered if it would be worth while develop, say a 10-point, "recommendations/suggestions" e-mail to publish in GG's column and perhaps elsewhere next week and ask other Salon users to copy and e-mail to Salon.

    I suspect we can agree on the first 5 or 7 ... I've had a long day and won't start now ... but posts NEED TO BE NUMBERED, new posts NEED to be flagged as new (I don't think I have often seen a comment system without a "new" flag ...

    Newest first -- for me is a must-have. I hate seeing the same first post over and over.

    The number of clicks required to get navigate to "latest" is ridiculous.

    The default cursor position on any page seems to be "in the comment box" rather than on the page... resulting in frustrating, redundant navigation ... wrt the "end" or "page down/up" buttons.

    Salon's comment system does not seem to be Diskus ...

    If it is possible FOR SOME to log into Salon without linking to Google/Facebook/Core ... then I want to know how to do this....

    A list of requests with identification of who is a "core member", who might commit to being a core member if management is responsive, and those "none of the above" might also help catch attention.

    Salon, primarily due to Joan's actions over the last decade, has serious credibility/honesty issues for me that I will not burden you all with ... old muck.... If Todd Gitlin shows up to lecture us about "getting clean for Gene"... all bets are off.

    Appalled to hear that the Obama Body Snatchers have apparently commandeered Josh Marshall's soul ... he was never remotely a radical ... but it appears, like Juan Cole, personal interests may be obscuring the discriminationg intelligence that sometimes flickered ...

    FWIW, it's not "wrong" for someone like Juah Cole to make his expertise available to the Pentagon, CIA, etc. Such expertise is desperately needed.

    I wondered aloud about Juan Cole's apparent lack of interest in the Iraq War Diary ... all too much like that of John Burn's ... experts who deliberately take sides, kowtow to the interest of one side while ignoring the other(s), stop being trustworthy ...

    What a waste. Smells like careerism at its most malignant.

    ReplyDelete
  3. If someone could let me know when the strike is over.

    jimwild1954@hotmail.com

    james fingleton wild

    ReplyDelete
  4. Dear Scuzza Man
    I have joined as a member but dont know how to sign in as a member. Last time I tried it wiped my post. It's probably very simple but so am I.
    In correspondence with you some months ago I said I was in NZ in 1970 just adding my age to my birthday. Wrong, I was there in 1971. After the game with St Paul's, the function and the drinking some girl took me for a swim in Auckland harbour at 12 mid night. What ever she had in mind in sobering me up didnt work and nor did I. No towels just my clothes that soon became wet. It was late May. I was dropped at my billet's, fell asleep (passed out) and awoke frozen to the ground covered in ice surrounded by thick frost. It was the coldest experience of my life till I got to South Island.
    I shouldn't tell the Americans but NZ is a beautiful, scenic, lush country with many wonderful, intelligent, well educated, friendly people. It has culture and diversity. Great actors, sportmen and musicans. Great food, wine and entertainment. One or two good Union players as well. Good luck in the cup. We have to play South Africa.
    .............................

    Apologies for parodies.
    Split EnZ best band band of their time. 6 months in a leaky boat, why those Finn brothers had four seasons in one day in Crowded House.

    I See Red.

    (T Finn) - Frenzy
    -=========================-

    [chorus:]

    When my salon is falling on it's feet
    I see red, I see red, I see red.
    How could someone wicked put it on the heap
    I see red, I see red, I see red.
    I see red, I see red
    (red!), I see red.

    I respect Glenn's wishes
    U T gave me such precious hours
    What to do without you.
    Squeezed me out of your life
    Down the drain like molten toothpaste
    I feel used and spat out.
    Poor old me

    [chorus]

    I'm fed up with crying
    My despair is dying,
    Turning into rage, day by day
    Greenwald before you met me
    In the pink when you let me post you
    I was blue when you let me down
    Black and Blue

    [chorus]
    Go!

    I see red, I see red, I see red...

    ....
    Original[ Lyrics from: http://

    james fingleton wild.

    ReplyDelete
  5. For Morning's Minion and What I think is your reaction to Glenn's back hand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aYzQb6cc5E&feature=related
    This is pure imagination http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeKdUeb1InI

    .....
    I see red http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKj4upY1VYI&feature=related
    Eddie Veddar and Tim finn Pearl Jam I see red http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ptk2q0Gvrc&feature=related
    6 months in a leaky boat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeKdUeb1InI
    4 seasons in one day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9sem05RHnM

    james fingleton wild

    ReplyDelete
  6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY_SOEgtjc8

    Divinyls - "Back To The Wall" 1988

    We are living in desperate times
    These are desperate times my dear
    Theres no way out of here
    Theres no way out my dear
    Ive been holding back all my tears
    Just so the pressure dont show
    Like a time bomb ticking away
    I might blow up some day

    Dont push dont shove
    Better watch what you do
    When my backs to the wall
    I might do anything at all
    When my backs to the wall
    I might take any chance at all
    When my backs to the wall
    I might do anything

    Youve got the upper hand
    Well Ive got nothing to lose
    When Im trapped in a corner like this
    I might light a fuse
    Dont push me too far
    You better watch what you do

    Dont push me too far
    You better run for your life

    Ive got nothing to lose
    I might light a fuse
    Yeah yeah
    Dont come any closer

    http://www.lyricstime.com/divinyls-back-to-the-wall-lyrics.html


    Vietnam Iraq whats the difference?

    Puckapunal Canungra and Shoalwater bay are Australian Army bases.V B and tinnies are beer. Australian New Zealand Army Corp is anzac. The cadets(Army cadets) (I did 2 years) were like ROTC, school boy soldiers. We fired 22s 303s bren guns and Self Loading RifleS (SLR). We flew in Caribous some choppers. Camps and a two week war game at Singleton and a number of one week camps at Holdsworthy. The draft stopped before I would have been able to be conscripted for the Vietnam war. My elder brother had his birthdate drawn by marble selection. The show stopped before he was required. I wanted to fight in the jungle and kill gooks. I wanted to go to glorious war and be a hero. Within a short time I became anti war. It took a personal crisis for me to ask 'what is going on?'.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urtiyp-G6jY


    I was only 19 (A walk in the light green). Redgum.

    Mum and Dad and Denny saw the Passing out Parade at Puckapunal
    (it was a long march from Cadets)
    The 6th Battalion was the next to tour, and it was me who drew the card
    We did Canungra - Shoalwater before we left

    And Townsville lined the footpaths as we marched down to the Quay
    This clipping from the paper shows us young and strong and clean
    And there's me in me slouch hat with me S.L.R. and Greens
    God help me, I was only 19

    From Vung tau riding Chinooks, to the dust at Nui Dat
    I'd been in and out of choppers now for months
    But we made our tents a home, V.B. and pin ups on the lockers
    And an Asian orange sunset through the scrub
    And can you tell me Doctor why I still can't get to sleep?
    And the night time's just a jungle dark and a barking M16
    And what's this rash that comes and goes, can you tell me what it means?
    God help me, I was only 19

    A four week operation, when each step can mean your last one on two legs
    It was a war within yourself
    But you wouldn't let your mates down 'til they had you dusted off
    So you closed your eyes and thought about something else

    Then someone yelled out 'Contact' and the bloke behind me swore
    We hooked in there for hours, then a God Almighty roar
    Frankie kicked a mine the day that Mankind kicked the moon
    God help me, he was going home in June

    I can still see Frankie drinking tinnies, in the Grand Hotel
    On a 36 hour Rec leave in Vung Tau
    And I can still hear Frankie, lying screaming in the jungle
    'Til the morphine came and killed the bloody row

    And the A.N.Z.A.C. legend didn't mention mud and blood and tears
    And the stories that my Father told me, never seemed quiet real
    I caught some pieces in my back that I didn't even feel
    God help me, I was only 19

    And can you tell me Doctor why I still can't get to sleep?
    And why the Channel 7 chopper chills me to my feet?
    And what's this rash that comes and goes, can you tell me what it means?
    God help me, I was only 19.
    ..............
    james fingleton wild

    ReplyDelete
  7. My great grand father took up Ogilvie station Moree NSW in 1880. His name Jim Fingleton. It was then taken up by his son , my grandfather, Jim Fingleton. I spent six years running the property when it passed to my mum.

    William Ogilvie was said to have been bogged on the property and wrote a poem (family history says 'The death of bold Ben Hall' whilst the ground hardened. Australians love the underdog. We love bushrangers and outlaws. The bravest man who ever lived Ned Kelly wrote a manifesto that was censored by the government for fifty years. It explains class inequality and government corruption. Read the writing of the greatest man who ever stood alone. It was Joe who penned Ned’s words in the famous Jerilderie letter as well as the red inked Euroa letter, sent to Victorian MP Donald Cameron and Superintendent Sadleir. It is also understood Joe composed a number of ballads extolling the virtues of the Gang’s escapades. A verse from one of Joe’s songs goes:

    My name is Ned Kelly,
    I’m known adversely well.
    My ranks are free,
    my name is law,
    Wherever I do dwell.
    My friends are all united,
    my mates are lying near.
    We sleep beneath shady trees,
    No danger do we fear.

    Ned Kelly was a natural leader, but it was later revealed that he had no plan to carry out organised crimes from his hideout. With the help of various friends, the Kelly boys operated a gold mine and a whisky still on Bullock Creek in an attempt to raise enough money to mount a retrial for their mother.
    Ironoutlaw.com I suggest he ran a Whiskey still.

    One of the Kelly gang was a Wild, go figure. Before taking up 'Ogilvie Station' the Fingletons ran a stage station at Millie. They kept many fine horses for Cobb and Co and bred and kept their own. They ran an inn and Captain Thunderbolt(outlaw) got his horses from my forebears at Millie. Thunderbolt would ride to Millie and then back to Uralla in a night.

    The Australian Will Ogilvie


    The bravest thing God ever made!
    (A British Officer’s Opinion)

    The skies that arched his land were blue,
    His bush-born winds were warm and sweet,
    And yet from earliest hours he knew
    The tides of victory and defeat:
    From fierce floods thundering at his birth,
    From red droughts ravening while he played,
    He learned no fear no foes on earth -
    The bravest thing God ever made!

    The bugles of the Motherland
    Rang ceaselessly across the sea,
    To call him and his lean brown band
    To shape Imperial destiny.,
    He went by youth’s grave purpose willed,
    The goal unknown, the cost unweighed,
    The promise of his blood fulfilled -
    The bravest thing God ever made!




    We know - it is our deathless pride! -
    The splendour of his first fierce blow;
    How, reckless, glorious, undenied,
    He stormed those steel-lined cliffs we know!
    And none who saw him scale the height
    Behind his reeking bayonet blade
    Would rob him of his title right -
    The bravest thing God ever made!

    Bravest, where half a world of men
    Are brave beyond all earth’s rewards,
    So stoutly none shall charge again
    Till the last breaking of the swords;
    Wounded or hale, won home from war,
    Or yonder by the Lone Pine laid,
    Give him his due for evermore -
    The bravest thing God ever made!

    Because of the Anzus treaty we have had to fight every bloody war the Americans tells to. We are still paying back America's salvation during ww2. We owed but we owe no more. Go home Yanks and take your wars with you.
    james fingleton wild

    ReplyDelete
  8. I want to say something here that may offend some people, but I no longer give a fuck. The comments at UT are becoming dumber by the second. I don't know if it is the set-up, which makes conversations tedious to follow (having to start over from page 1 each time to see if a real conversation has ensued may be to blame; read the same thing over enough times and it's sure to start sounding inane), or if it is the fact that we now only have a very small group in the pool. But look, if you are going to post over there anyway, why are you here? You obviously don't have that much of a problem with the way salon is doing things now if you are posting multiple times a day at UT or on other salon articles.
    Scuzza, I appreciate that you are trying to come up with some solution. But the editors at salon don't care about our "issues" - they just want people clicking on the pages to generate ad revenue. They aren't going to change the system in response to a few GG "regulars". The regulars will be replaced with other people who like to talk a lot (like, a LOT) and salon will get its ad money. Hell, the "regulars" have already been replaced; there are over 350 comments on yesterday's article. Do you think salon cares if half of them are comments from the same three people? (Yeah, James, I'm talking about you for one. Jesus, you're on every page on UT and now here you are with 3 or 4 posts over here, talking about, what, exactly? Don't you have a day job?) Salon and HuffPo have become just like the damn television pastors - "Be healed! That'll be twenty dollars. Be healed! Twenty dollars. Twenty dollars! Twenty dollars! Brothers and sisters, we are healing like crazy today!..."
    Just start our own chatroom where we can talk about GG's articles or other events of the day and fuck salon. Either Glenn will get tired of his own comment section and put pressure on salon to change things for the better, or he won't. WE aren't going to affect the change. Not by pressuring salon. Maybe by pressuring Glenn - but why is anyone assuming he cares? There's 330 million people in the US and a whole bunch of them can use computers with some degree of skill. If the point is to have reasonable conversation, we can do that without salon. Salon does not care about reasonable conversation or about ten or so people "boycotting" its site.
    And now that they are apparently enamored of the idea of moderators guarding their thought palace, why would anyone want to bother posting there anyway? Might as well be posting on the WH website.
    Why don't we just pack up and move?
    -Teri

    ReplyDelete
  9. "Why don't we just pack up and move? -Teri" Sounds good, send a postcard from the high country when you get there!

    A suggestion:

    Once upon a time there was a blogger who was even better than Greenwald. He used the name "Billmon" and he still surfaces every once in a great while at Huffpo.

    There came a day when he shut down the comments section at his own site, and a German named "b" opened up "Moon of Alabama" to host talk about Billmon's articles and the odd occasional original post by "b" himself or the regulars. It is still one the best places on the net in many ways; long after we lost the great Billmon.

    This place could be the same thing. We just need someone to mirror Glenn's posts so that a new thread is started each time he starts one. Post here and the regulars who are Teri's friends and so forth can come here and join.

    This may be an opportunity that you don't yet see --- just like losing Billmon did something that I could not see at the time.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I saw MM's post identifying the person helpful to her (finally) -- thank you.

    I wrote a long (now vanished) post yesterday suggesting a 10 (or 15) point list of comment section recommendations/suggestions be agreed upon, posted and with a suggestion to individuals to e-mail it to Salon Management. An online discussion might help clarify the suggestions more exactly and develop consensus.

    Actually a request for an on-line Q&A forum with Salon's management might be worthwhile.

    Teri, I think Salon (and others) are positioning themselves for the next presidential election cycle. So far their content additions choices are good -- but they are not particularly Salon associates or "investments. All published elsewhere prior to their association with Salon (and still do). In contrast, Gary Kamiya was back this last week -- he was an important long-term Salon original who was budgeted out. Joan is back with a vengeance and there's still a lot of fluff/dubious content hovering in the corners. I tired of the instant memoir-ization of every-little-thing a decade ago and still hate and/or am baffled by the endless confessional. Isn't Cary Tennis and letters enough?

    my other post published and then vanished.... let's see how this one goes.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Morning's Minion:

    Teri, your points are very well taken. On the few occasions that I've been able to log on, I've urged a boycott. The truth is, not many people are coming here. If we can post a few times urging others to move here, we can get something done.

    I'm keenly aware of how odd it is to even try to post there. The whole thing continues to disturb on so many levels.

    Glenn was just a guest editor at the Guardian. Now that is a site to emulate. You highlight a passage and click a button marked "bold," "underline," "text," etc. and the system automatically enters the code. Fast, easy, accurate. Posts unfold in real time, and if you aren't inclined to write, you can click a button that says you agree with another poster.

    This is not rocket science. It's not as if Salon had to invent something or anything new, which makes the speculation about how and why this went so spectacularly wrong completely valid. For example, I made a point of cruising through a few other bloggers on Salon when I couldn't post. Laura Miller, Joan, etc. had none of these issues. The number of posts listed and appearing was consistent, and while there were one or two complaints about having a bit of difficulty getting on, there was nothing like what was happening with Glenn's site. Now that may just be because his blog has always attracted significantly more posters, but I'm not sure about that.

    It seems that those of us who care most passionately about free and unfettered speech were shown the door, in various ways. Coincidence?

    ---
    Also, an oddity here. I too have tried to post things here that went missing. I was a member with a picture, and now I can only get on through anonymous. Who knows? Maybe the whole damn internet is bugged and collapsing from overuse and abuse of advertising and the culture of crap.

    ReplyDelete
  12. two thoughts -- first is that to implement changes may require virtually another "re-launch" which Salon & Co may not be willing to do for some time ... or until some significant stabilization has been obtained.

    Second, in my history with Salon (Joan in particular), there has been a not-uncommon "management position" of "refusing to be blackmailed" by the audience/customers ... When Joan proposed Broadsheet (the pink ghetto for feminist news) and a pre-Open Salon blog experiement, Table Talk (all paying members) response was extremely, irrc, overwhelmingly negative ... (FWIW, I did not re-up after Broadsheet and some Table Talk moderation issues and some OTHER things.)

    I'm just saying ....

    ReplyDelete
  13. Lysias here.

    I haven't bothered to figure out how to log in in the new Salon system, but I thought I should post this idea here on the likely identity of the CEO of a major bank located in New York City that got Sorkin to write a story about Occupy Wall Street.

    I got the distinct impression reading Too Big to Fail that Jamie Dimon is one of Sorkin's sources.

    ReplyDelete
  14. The truth is, not many people are coming here. If we can post a few times urging others to move here, we can get something done
    --MM


    I'm here! The way it stands now at Glenn's place, I can't see participating anymore. It's a shame but Salon holds the cards. It's up to them to either pay attention to the expressions of dissatisfaction or not. And if they're anything other than corporate minded skags, then numbers of clicks should not be the determining factor for them to pay attention and act on it.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Teri49: Well said. You and Iraq Vet and a few others seem to be the only posters from GG's site whose principles extend into the policies governing internet comment sections. Most just seemed annoyed at personal inconvenience or an inability to access their own archives. I see heru-ur and bilejones still post there--I guess freedom of the individual isn't quite as important to them as they have maintained.

    Susan Sunflower: You sure do seem to spend a lot of your life on all things Salon.

    Billmon suddenly shut down his site after he wrote a post that showed he cared more about facts than Democrats. Coincidence?

    Scuzza: I and others have had posts of ours disappear from this site. They appear, and then vanish. Before people who object to GG letting Salon take over the moderation of his comment section begin posting here based on false assumptions, can you please let your readers know what your own policy is about deleting comments? It would seem they disappered not because of some glitch on your own site, as you state you are an expert in technology. Was it because you didn't like the thoughts expressed in those posts?

    ReplyDelete
  16. teri I am talking about life. I'm talking about concerns me. You write and read what you will. I have been posting so much for a reason but I should ask your permission. (who are you, you bitter person.) I ve been tracking Salon's movements. What information is sent or recieved. I've been testing the system. And I could tell you what I found out.
    What a great defender of free speech your are teri. I dont have a job. I have been on a disability support pension since 1991. I'm a disabled pensioner Teri but to be a good corporate stooge like you I will get a job and keep this financial system going. That will fix everything Teri.
    HBGary said Greenwald would be professional enough to turn. He has been turned. Guardian to sell his book.
    Glenn has sold out as you did too teri some time ago.
    Know all no nothing American thinker., Pathetiuc really teri. I say a $20 pray for you.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Scuzza Man you asked for members I signed up but there seems to be no members now.

    Hello Teri how did that prayer go. feelany compassion for your fellow humans yet or do you still feel arrogant and dismissive.
    I can afford one more $20 prayer.
    By the way teri as soon as the boycott was called I stopped posting. A did a count and many people post more than I do. So what is your personal hang up teri? It is said that the thing that most annoys you in others is the same fault not acknowledged.

    ReplyDelete
  18. This blog deletes more legitimate comments that the host doesn't like than HUFFPO. It's either a techno nightmare worse than Salon (unlikely as Scuzza says he is a techno expert) or this site is a total fraud. Did anyone post something very critical of Salon here only to have your post vanish? Think it was an accident? How many accidents does it take before one starts to smell the coffee?

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hi all,
    Just got back from protests in D.C. -here's a message that Glenn sent me today.


    From: Glenn Greenwald
    Date: Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 8:06 AM


    Hi Helen - Could you - or someone - clearly list the major complaints with the Salon changes? I've heard lots of different things from lots of different people - everyone at Salon who works on IT has been overwhelmed trying to get the system working right - it still isn't - so nobody has been particularly receptive (or more accurately: able) to deal with the issues I have that aren't directly about functionality.

    But things are settling down a bit and I'm going to make a much more concerted demand to have my issues attended to early this week, but I want to have as clear an understanding as possible about the primary objections (beyond the Google/Facebook requirement, which I obviously already understand).

    Glenn


    Bill Owen, web-builder extraordinaire, has some recommendations for platforms for our own site to comment on Glenn's articles. At this point, I'll be packing up and moving until Glenn is able to effectively address our concerns with Salon.

    Helen

    ReplyDelete
  20. Helen

    So what is your main complaint? Is it the lack of preview?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Smoke screen Glenn.
    The problems have been stated for over a week but if someone else could list them ,maybe early next week but that's if you can get your issues addressed, it might be fixed next week.
    That couple of days you asked to give you is now a request to wait two weeks.?
    In the mean time just put up with posts dissappearing and the mess.
    Smoke screen Glenn
    Where are the archives Glenn?

    james fingleton wild.

    ReplyDelete
  22. This ones for teri.
    I should of told you though I did not wish it to be known but I have a terminal illness. Shortly teri you will see no more unamerican posts from me. Happy days for you.
    Did you know teri that you have done me a great service. Coming clean is good for the soul. I know you cant understand what it is I'm saying but I just found another $20.
    To show how much I appreciated your understanding of kindness, I wont post anymore for some hours.
    Day four without sleep and plenty of pain. Suffering is divine. Happy happy joy joy. Peace to men of good will.

    ReplyDelete
  23. #10 with a bullet -- allow non-social media linkage -- if not possible, I would like a very serious explanation of the "tracking" and "profiling" that I am "authorizing" by linking my Salon posting to my G-mail .... I'm confused by the information I've accrued.

    1. reinstate "most recent post first" option -- "replies should be temporally sequential after each root/non-reply post.

    2. "branching" for replies needs not only a "compress" feature ...

    3. but also desperately needs "new" flags ... this is pretty standard in most registration-required comment sections.

    4. Preview ...

    5. Darken and broaden (indent more) the line of each "limb" and then either use lighter line(s) or different colors for the tributaries there from.

    6. number ALL posts

    7. "harden" page break criteria -- messy, annoying (I think some progress has been noted here.

    8. enable colored text and other relatively basic html commands -- apparently other HTML functions are now enabled

    9. link an HTML tutorial

    =================================================

    oh, and some moderation would be appreciated... air sucked right out of the room by some individual posters

    ReplyDelete
  24. Weird news:

    I can go to Salon and ignore logging in via Google and log in the old time way with my old time screen name. If I do, then the archive I built up is still there attached to that screen name.

    Now; what is all the fuss about?

    Preview! That is my main fuss. (and I don't use it enough even when we have it)

    ReplyDelete
  25. sum-more

    - use a single time zone ... any time zone so we can reply to John Doe about his post #878 at 1000 and/or reference other posts ...

    - the utility of page numbers has been lost with branching wrt referencing someone's previous post -- that post from an hour ago is much more difficult to find -- probably linking (href) to permlink needs to be explained and promoted as a solution.

    - there seems to be glitchiness within threads -- suggestions of a maximum number of posts/sub-thread ... I donno, I haven't been posting.

    - reinstating link/sig would help a lot of people ...

    - FIND OUR LETTERS ARCHIVES.

    - Fewer clicks to access letters please. Page default cursor placement seems to be within the "post comment box" ... put it elsewhere ... scrolling down to the bottom of the page is a pain.

    - Reinstate the Active Letters feature for those of us who often follow more than one at a time but don't want to keep too many widows open.

    (I'm probably not done yet.) ;-))

    (found an amazing series of YouTubes of actors reading poems for a Swiss Bank English ad campaign

    Alan Bates reading Robert Frost, A road not taken
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzUm0wqhE7E

    Alan Bates reading Inviticus
    http://tinyurl.com/ydcwryg

    John Gielgud | Ulysses (1996)
    http://tinyurl.com/4ys38cp

    ... there's more

    ReplyDelete
  26. Hello from What the???!!!

    Salon Fugly 2.0 is a clusterfuck. Let's not pull punches about that. I created an alt name WTF but I couldn't link it to my What the??? account on Salon. I can't even read posts from my phone, even when I install software that masks that I am wireless. Google is asking for phone numbers now to confirm creating a google email account, so there is basically no way to post on Salon anon.

    As we know from foreign policy "mistakes" and financial institution "mistakes" that seem to go on and on without "resolution"--this was intentional.

    There is still A People's Constitution, where Salon folks gathered for a few weeks, and could still gather if they wanted to:

    http://apeoplesconstitution.wikispaces.com/home

    The way I view it is that when a door closes, a window opens. I think that maybe it was the best thing that could happen to the good people of Salon that a particularly comfortable door closed, and now there are infinite windows. I'm not happy about it, I would love to still have Salon as my outlet for ideas I don't feel comfortable expressing to my friends and family and associates, at least until I have had the feedback and input from other very smart and alienated folks, but...sometimes life works out exactly the way its supposed to, and that has nothing to do with our own particular desires or plans.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Susan Sunflower said...
    #10 with a bullet -- allow non-social media linkage -- if not possible, I would like a very serious explanation of the "tracking" and "profiling" that I am "authorizing" by linking my Salon posting to my G-mail .... I'm confused by the information I've accrued.

    1. reinstate "most recent post first" option -- "replies should be temporally sequential after each root/non-reply post.

    2. "branching" for replies needs not only a "compress" feature ...

    3. but also desperately needs "new" flags ... this is pretty standard in most registration-required comment sections.

    4. Preview ...

    5. Darken and broaden (indent more) the line of each "limb" and then either use lighter line(s) or different colors for the tributaries there from.

    6. number ALL posts

    7. "harden" page break criteria -- messy, annoying (I think some progress has been noted here.

    8. enable colored text and other relatively basic html commands -- apparently other HTML functions are now enabled

    9. link an HTML tutorial

    =================================================

    oh, and some moderation would be appreciated... air sucked right out of the room by some individual posters

    8 October 2011 16:22

    **99

    use single time zone ... any time zone so we can reply to John Doe about his post #878 at 1000 and/or reference other posts ...

    (this is also where the utility of page numbers has been lost wrt referencing someone's previous post -- that post from an hour ago is much more difficult to find -- probably linking (href) to permlink needs to be explained and promoted as a solution.

    there seems to be glitchiness within threads -- suggestions of a maximum number of posts/sub-thread ... I donno, I haven't been posting.

    reinstating link/sig would help a lot of people ...

    FIND OUR LETTERS ARCHIVES.

    Fewer clicks to access letters please

    reinstated the Active Letters feature for those of us who often follow more than one at a time but don't want to keep too many widows open.

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  28. Helen - is this where you want the list compiled?
    And do you want this info. to be relayed to others at Salon?

    ~avelna

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  29. Sorry to have to burden Helen this way -- but I've had two lengthy posts vanish after being "published" ...

    something is all fucked up.

    ReplyDelete
  30. aononymi -- please "sign" your posts ...

    Chosing the NAME/URL profile puts it in the header and does not require registering ...

    If that make you uncomfortable, please either first line/last line ...

    ReplyDelete
  31. Hi avelna,

    You're welcome to post here at SalonFugly, or to send your list to iraqvetforhumanrights@gmail.com.

    Glenn needs the list soon, in order to prepare for meetings early next week, so I will post the compiled concerns by 11am tomorrow for further commentary before I send the list on him by 2pm.

    I'm thinking about structuring concerns into three main sections:

    1. Musts (won't participate if doesn't happen)
    2. Would strongly prefer
    3. Suggested conveniences

    Please do forward Glenn's email that I posted above to any other regular UT commenters that you're in touch with, and my own email if they'd prefer to send concerns that way.

    Thanks very much, everybody.

    Helen Gerhardt
    (formerly known as IraqVetForHumanRights)

    ReplyDelete
  32. The first imperative is the archives. The commenters at UT have made it what it is (which Glenn has graciously emphasised repeatedly). They deserve to have access to their own archived comments. Plus, of course, being able to search those archives is of enormous benefit to other commenters & lurkers.

    The second imperative is the functional issues to do with comment composition and presentation, most significantly preview.

    Then come HTML tagging capabilities that are standard in such comment facilities and have been for some years.

    But the overwhelming sense of outrage, for me, derives from the tone-deaf arrogance of the announcement that the changes were all going to be good for us, and the blanket refusal to even acknowledge that this has not been the case, and indeed that Salon has not attempted to ask us what changes we consider would be good for us.

    But Glenn has a current post up on the War on Drugs, in which he argues strongly that people know what is best for them, far better than any centralised bureaucracy can ever do.

    I'd really like him to relay THAT bit of advice to Salon's management.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I was lucky. I was able to access my account almost immediately after the changes, make the changeover to Salon Core and access my letters archive. It has, however, been frustrating for me to watch others struggle to do the same thing - others much more important to the conversation than I am.
    The mechanism for threading the letters is my second biggest frustration. It's virtually impossible to carry on a conversation when replying is so restrictive and cumbersome. Trying to determine who is replying to what and to whom can be quite confusing. Being required to constantly look through the thread to see if there are replies to any given letter is time consuming and irritating. The back and forth between letter writers and, in the case of Glenn Greenwald, between him and the letter writers is as enlightening and important to the experience as the posts themselves. Therefore it should be a priority to fix that problem.
    All that being said, some of the features I like about the new system are the ability to see the author's post on the same page as the comment box and being able to refresh the comments on any page.
    It's disappointing that users of Salon were given no warning, much less input into the changes being made and going forward I hope that the problems being experienced by the users will be addressed in a timely fashion.
    ~avelna2001

    ReplyDelete